Isolering råd
Jag är ny och inte tala och skriva Svenska, ursäkta mig.
Jag hopp du tala och skriva Engelska.
I drop a question about värme in the värme heater but they advice me to drop my isolation question in this heater.
We have a vacation house (fritidhus) in Bjurtjärn, (Storfors-Kristinehamn-Karlskoga) Värmland
The house is from ± 1935 and not isolated except for the roof and floor, they are isolated with wood saw-dust.
The floor has been isolated with 20 cm wood saw-dust and the roof with 15 cm. I hope you understand what I mean.
The outside walls are not isolated.
We split the house, one part for privat use and one part for visitors.
I need some isolation advice for the visitors part.
I made all rooms inside and a new ceiling because the house is 5,5 meter high inside.
The new ceiling is 3 meter high, because the top of the windows is 3 meters. Between the new ceiling and the old ceiling at 5,5 meter is nothing. On the old ceiling is the 15cm wood saw-dust.
I want to isolate the new ceiling, at 3 meters, with 145 mm rockwool and all inside walls with 45 mm rockwool
My questions are :
Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
I do not know if that is correct and I am looking forward to your advice.
Anyway, tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Jag hopp du tala och skriva Engelska.
I drop a question about värme in the värme heater but they advice me to drop my isolation question in this heater.
We have a vacation house (fritidhus) in Bjurtjärn, (Storfors-Kristinehamn-Karlskoga) Värmland
The house is from ± 1935 and not isolated except for the roof and floor, they are isolated with wood saw-dust.
The floor has been isolated with 20 cm wood saw-dust and the roof with 15 cm. I hope you understand what I mean.
The outside walls are not isolated.
We split the house, one part for privat use and one part for visitors.
I need some isolation advice for the visitors part.
I made all rooms inside and a new ceiling because the house is 5,5 meter high inside.
The new ceiling is 3 meter high, because the top of the windows is 3 meters. Between the new ceiling and the old ceiling at 5,5 meter is nothing. On the old ceiling is the 15cm wood saw-dust.
I want to isolate the new ceiling, at 3 meters, with 145 mm rockwool and all inside walls with 45 mm rockwool
My questions are :
Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
I do not know if that is correct and I am looking forward to your advice.
Anyway, tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Hej
I show some pictures of the construction and hope this makes more clear to answer my questions.
yttervag byggnad
tak
tak
golv
krypgrund
kök 6 vardagsrum
sovrum och vardagsrum
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
I show some pictures of the construction and hope this makes more clear to answer my questions.
yttervag byggnad
tak
tak
golv
krypgrund
kök 6 vardagsrum
sovrum och vardagsrum
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Hi Schenk
i´ll try to answer and hope you understand my swenglish
I´m not a building-constructor but have learned a thing or two living in an old house.
* Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
As i see it you have no other choice when i see the pic. of the floor, the beams are not designed to hold more insulation.
A newbuild is recommended 300mm i believe, but i think 20cm is enough as long as the wind does not get by the insulation.
* Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
When you say ceiling, is that the ceiling below the wood-saw dust cold attic?
If so you should add insulation ontop of the wood saw dust.
A total of 50cm is recommended today, otherwise the radiators will kill themselves
We kept our 15-30cm wood saw dust and added cellulosa-fiber 30cm, it gave a very good insulating effect.
As long as the existing wood saw dust is ok, and not wet/moist you don´t have to remove it.
important to know is that you need to preserve at least 2cm below the "råspånt" on the cold attic for wind circulation.
This is done with prefab "vindavledare" or "masonit" - see my site:
http://www.nybleus.se/hus/gallery/images/isoleringvind/window.php?4
* Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
If only for sound insulation it should be fine.
* What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
Looking at your picture of the outside wall, it looks like 2-3 inch timber, this has insulating effect since it is wood.
But adding some insulating certainly wouldn´t make it worse
I would put up 45mm in two sections (total 90mm), and displace layer 2 by half of the insulating boards width.
This is to eliminate ev. gaps in the insulation.
When insulation from the inside, some say you should have "diffusion"-spärr, and some say you don´t need it.
Especially in an old house, there are many opinions and none of them seems to be applicable to all solutions.
i believe that if you have good ventilation you should be fine without "diffusion"-spärr.
As i wrote at the start, this is just my advice, wait for some more.
Good Luck.
i´ll try to answer and hope you understand my swenglish
I´m not a building-constructor but have learned a thing or two living in an old house.
* Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
As i see it you have no other choice when i see the pic. of the floor, the beams are not designed to hold more insulation.
A newbuild is recommended 300mm i believe, but i think 20cm is enough as long as the wind does not get by the insulation.
* Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
When you say ceiling, is that the ceiling below the wood-saw dust cold attic?
If so you should add insulation ontop of the wood saw dust.
A total of 50cm is recommended today, otherwise the radiators will kill themselves
We kept our 15-30cm wood saw dust and added cellulosa-fiber 30cm, it gave a very good insulating effect.
As long as the existing wood saw dust is ok, and not wet/moist you don´t have to remove it.
important to know is that you need to preserve at least 2cm below the "råspånt" on the cold attic for wind circulation.
This is done with prefab "vindavledare" or "masonit" - see my site:
http://www.nybleus.se/hus/gallery/images/isoleringvind/window.php?4
* Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
If only for sound insulation it should be fine.
* What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
Looking at your picture of the outside wall, it looks like 2-3 inch timber, this has insulating effect since it is wood.
But adding some insulating certainly wouldn´t make it worse
I would put up 45mm in two sections (total 90mm), and displace layer 2 by half of the insulating boards width.
This is to eliminate ev. gaps in the insulation.
When insulation from the inside, some say you should have "diffusion"-spärr, and some say you don´t need it.
Especially in an old house, there are many opinions and none of them seems to be applicable to all solutions.
i believe that if you have good ventilation you should be fine without "diffusion"-spärr.
As i wrote at the start, this is just my advice, wait for some more.
Good Luck.
Hej Spocks_beard
Thank you for the response.
And your Swenglisch is very good I wish my Svenska was that good.
I am learning Svenska at school but it will take a while before I can read and write it.
I can make an extra insulation agains the underside of the beams under the floor but I am afraid of moisture between the beams and the new insulation.
That is why I want to keep it in the way it is, 20 cm wood saw dust.
But if someone have a better idea I am open for that.
What I mean by the ceiling is the ceiling at 3 meter. The ceiling of the kitchen and bedrooms and livingroom.
Between that ceiling and the excisting ceiling is 2,5 meter.
On the upper ceiling is the wood saw dust.
My idea is to insulate the ceiling of the rooms with 145 mm rockwool but I understand that it better to make that insulation thicker.
But how thick ?
The space between the new ceiling and the old exciting ceiling with the saw dust in not in use.
The new ceiling comes on the beams which you can see on the vardagsrum pictures.
I hope you understand what I mean.
About the insulation in the inside walls, I also want to insulate agains heat.
Is 90 mm good enough for heating insulation ? Then I do that.
About the outside walls, I go for the 90 mm insulation if that is better.
Put 45mm insulation agains the wall - make regels of 45mm agains the insulation - put 45 mm insulation between the regels - put plastic over the insulation and regels and finish it with decoration wood.
Is that a good construction ?
If you do not understand it I will draw it and put it on the internet so you can see what I mean.
Your pictures are very clear to me.
Tack så mycket
Nol
Thank you for the response.
And your Swenglisch is very good
I wish my Svenska was that good.I am learning Svenska at school but it will take a while before I can read and write it.
I can make an extra insulation agains the underside of the beams under the floor but I am afraid of moisture between the beams and the new insulation.
That is why I want to keep it in the way it is, 20 cm wood saw dust.
But if someone have a better idea I am open for that.
What I mean by the ceiling is the ceiling at 3 meter. The ceiling of the kitchen and bedrooms and livingroom.
Between that ceiling and the excisting ceiling is 2,5 meter.
On the upper ceiling is the wood saw dust.
My idea is to insulate the ceiling of the rooms with 145 mm rockwool but I understand that it better to make that insulation thicker.
But how thick ?
The space between the new ceiling and the old exciting ceiling with the saw dust in not in use.
The new ceiling comes on the beams which you can see on the vardagsrum pictures.
I hope you understand what I mean.
About the insulation in the inside walls, I also want to insulate agains heat.
Is 90 mm good enough for heating insulation ? Then I do that.
About the outside walls, I go for the 90 mm insulation if that is better.
Put 45mm insulation agains the wall - make regels of 45mm agains the insulation - put 45 mm insulation between the regels - put plastic over the insulation and regels and finish it with decoration wood.
Is that a good construction ?
If you do not understand it I will draw it and put it on the internet so you can see what I mean.
Your pictures are very clear to me.
Tack så mycket
Nol
The best way to add insulation on an old timber house is on the outside. The timber like a warm environment rather than the colder situation that appears when you add insulation on the inside. If u can, do it on the outside instead. At least don't put a thick insulation (your 45mm is probably better than 90mm) on the inside, the timber is a ok insulater in itself. You probably avoid heat and moisture problems with sealing of the windows and the timber itself instead of extra insulate more than you have to.
About two "diffusion spärr". Not good, it will probably bring you problem with moisture if you are unlucky the water get trapped inside the two "diffusion spärr". I think that the "diffusion spärr" on the outside is just a wind blocker and in that case its ok, but i might be wrong
Old houses are often built without "diffusion spärr", it's when you put a lot of insulation in a old house the moisture problems comes, without the insulation the house breethe it out and u have a colder house. With thick insulation (and often a diffusion spärr) it will not breethe it out in the same manner so you have to do a better ventilation of the house.
20cm sawdust may not be sufficent on a cold winter day (read january-february). A good way to heat it up a bit and protect the beams "bjälklag?" from moisture is to protect it from the cold ground. Put a special plastic on the ground and insulate over the plastic with cellplast-insulation (5-10cm). It's a easy way to fix both problems. If you have big problems with moisture i put a small heater/de-moisturer in the "krypgrund" to.
I don't follow here, why do u want to make a thick insulation here. Soundblocking? If u want to block sounds and insulate a bit. Make a empty airspace in the middle. for example panel/(plasterboard)/45mm insulation/air space/board/45mm insulation/floor board or such/floor. That will give you a sufficent insulation i think. Maybe u can use 70mm if u want. but i better use more money on insulation on the attic, preferable 400-500mm total saw-dust and ekofiber or such material that "breathe".
Hmm, Insulate aginst heat? On the inside? Why? It will spread thru the inside walls with the ventilation and the radiant heat will warm the inside walls up, u only slow it down for a bit. If u want a cold zone, u have to build a airtight, ventilation independent room with thick insulation. But i dont think u want that? With inside walls people often use a 45*70 regel, is it "bolt" in english, then you use 70mm thick insulation, mostly for blocking sounds.
This u dont have to do, thera are other ways to ventilate the attic, especially for older buildings with no roof-foot ventilation in the construction.
I hope this could help you
Regards
Hej
First of all, thank you for helping me with advice.
I made a new draw to clear the ceiling question. Here can you see the new draw and here the tak picture which is notice in the draw.
I hope that this help you to understand me and to give me a better advice.
If not, please let me know and I do my best to answere you.
Add insulation from the outside is better but a big problem and a lot of work.
It is a vacationhouse ( fritidhus) where we stay some weeks in a year and also some weeks in wintertime.
But we have water en so on in the house and therefor I want central heating to keep the house frostfree.
I hope this will help you too to understand me and advice me.
I understand and agree that two diffusion spärr is not good so I forget the new one.
But is 45mm better or good enough then 90mm ?
We are making a new ventilation system in the house. Two pipes of 200mm on the roof and a smaller pipe system to all rooms.
Anticimex advice us to put plastic on the ground in the "kryppgrund" . That is agains moister.
Your advice to put cellplast insulation on the plastic is very good, thank you.
That keep a lot of the cold in the ground.
I use 45x70 mm bolt for the inside walls but in a way that the wall is 100mm thick and the bolt for one side is not connected with the wall from the other side. The bolt from the visitors side is just between the bolt of our side. In some kind of way I make 2 walls with 45x70 bolts but the wall is going to be 100mm thick. That is for nois reduction.
But when is the visitors part of the house is not in use I keep that frost free and our part will be heated to 20°
To protect the heat transmission I prefer to insulate the inside walls.
It does have to be a heavy insulation but everything helps to protect the heat transmission to the other part of the house.
Last, I do not understand what "råspånd" is and I can not find a translation over the internet.
Thank you again.
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
First of all, thank you for helping me with advice.
I made a new draw to clear the ceiling question. Here can you see the new draw and here the tak picture which is notice in the draw.
I hope that this help you to understand me and to give me a better advice.
If not, please let me know and I do my best to answere you.
Add insulation from the outside is better but a big problem and a lot of work.
It is a vacationhouse ( fritidhus) where we stay some weeks in a year and also some weeks in wintertime.
But we have water en so on in the house and therefor I want central heating to keep the house frostfree.
I hope this will help you too to understand me and advice me.
I understand and agree that two diffusion spärr is not good so I forget the new one.
But is 45mm better or good enough then 90mm ?
We are making a new ventilation system in the house. Two pipes of 200mm on the roof and a smaller pipe system to all rooms.
Anticimex advice us to put plastic on the ground in the "kryppgrund" . That is agains moister.
Your advice to put cellplast insulation on the plastic is very good, thank you.
That keep a lot of the cold in the ground.
I use 45x70 mm bolt for the inside walls but in a way that the wall is 100mm thick and the bolt for one side is not connected with the wall from the other side. The bolt from the visitors side is just between the bolt of our side. In some kind of way I make 2 walls with 45x70 bolts but the wall is going to be 100mm thick. That is for nois reduction.
But when is the visitors part of the house is not in use I keep that frost free and our part will be heated to 20°
To protect the heat transmission I prefer to insulate the inside walls.
It does have to be a heavy insulation but everything helps to protect the heat transmission to the other part of the house.
Last, I do not understand what "råspånd" is and I can not find a translation over the internet.
Thank you again.
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
"Råspont" is just a woodenplank. But with a groove?
http://www.byggmax.se/is-bin/INTERS...yID=i5EKAaAz4jYAAAER.WoatFtR&JumpTo=OfferList
http://www.byggmax.se/is-bin/INTERS...yID=i5EKAaAz4jYAAAER.WoatFtR&JumpTo=OfferList
That made it perfectly clear. My first guess were that the 2,5m space should be a living space to. I can see why u want to add more insulation here, and its ok to do so maybe 40cm will do it. A good idea is a diffusion block on the warm side if u build it from scratch and add a nice ventilation system to the cold attic. You now got two cold attics in the house but i can't really see a problem with that if u can block moisture from the living space. The upper most attic you can leave untouched, saw-dust is very good to fix moisture problems. pardon my english
This is a way to be safe from mould problems when u have a existing diffusionblocker in the construction. Not more than 1/4 of the total insulation or wall thickness in this case the timber, board,panel should be on the diffusionblockers inside. For example:
1. 5cm insulation / diffusionblocker/ 15cm wall and insulation. +good 1/4
2. 10cm insulation/ diffusion blocker / 20cm wall and insulation. -not so good, might get problems
3. 15cm insulation/diffusion blocker/ 5cm wall. - bad, maybe severe problems
But i still think that the old diffusion blocker you have is just a cardboard wind stopper and not a plastic or asphaltboard. Then u can add a diffusion blocker and more insulation, but the timber wants to get some heat to feel well so you have to do a trade off to preserve your house in the best of ways. I go for 45mm but i dont really now how thick your outside wall is.
Satisfied
?Please let me quote :
Your English is very good !!
I make it as I draw it in my draw from yesterday 12.54 but with 40cm insulation without a diffuse block between the insulation and the gips / bjalklag.
Is that correct or is the diffuse blocker between the insulation and gips better ?
I make a new ventilation system from every room to a pipe on the roof and I ventilate the space above the rooms and also make a ventilation at the top above the saw dust.
I do not know if it is a windblocker but what I could see it is black and thin. You can see it on the picture "yttervag"
Because I do not know that for sure I suggest to insulate it with 45mm insulation without diffuse blocker.
Is that correct ?
The timber is 3" (75mm) thick and I think that the total wall is ± 80mm thick including a cartonboard on the wall inside.
Satisfied ?[/QUOTE]
YES, tack så mycket
Last question, can you advice me for the question below ?
I use 45x70 mm bolt for the inside walls but in a way that the wall is 100mm thick. The bolt for one side is not connected with the wall from the other side. The bolt from the visitors side is just between the bolt of our side. In some kind of way I make 2 walls with 45x70 bolts but the wall is going to be 100mm thick. This construction is for nois reduction.
But if the visitors part of the house is not in use I want to keep that frost free but our part will be heated to 20°
To protect the heat transmission I prefer to insulate the inside walls.
It does have to be a heavy insulation but everything helps to protect the heat transmission to the other part of the house.
What is your advice : 45mm or 90mm with or without diffuse blocker ?
I know how to do that here in Holland, I build my house here in Holland but Sweden is totaly different in this and befor I made big mistakes I want to know how they do that in Sweden.
And I appreciate it very much that you all will advice me !!
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Fabian-Bom skrev:That made it perfectly clear. My first guess were that the 2,5m space should be a living space to. I can see why u want to add more insulation here, and its ok to do so maybe 40cm will do it. A good idea is a diffusion block on the warm side if u build it from scratch and add a nice ventilation system to the cold attic. You now got two cold attics in the house but i can't really see a problem with that if u can block moisture from the living space. The upper most attic you can leave untouched, saw-dust is very good to fix moisture problems. pardon my english
Your English is very good !!
I make it as I draw it in my draw from yesterday 12.54 but with 40cm insulation without a diffuse block between the insulation and the gips / bjalklag.
Is that correct or is the diffuse blocker between the insulation and gips better ?
I make a new ventilation system from every room to a pipe on the roof and I ventilate the space above the rooms and also make a ventilation at the top above the saw dust.
Fabian-Bom skrev:
I do not know if it is a windblocker but what I could see it is black and thin. You can see it on the picture "yttervag"
Because I do not know that for sure I suggest to insulate it with 45mm insulation without diffuse blocker.
Is that correct ?
The timber is 3" (75mm) thick and I think that the total wall is ± 80mm thick including a cartonboard on the wall inside.
Satisfied
?[/QUOTE]YES, tack så mycket
Last question, can you advice me for the question below ?
I use 45x70 mm bolt for the inside walls but in a way that the wall is 100mm thick. The bolt for one side is not connected with the wall from the other side. The bolt from the visitors side is just between the bolt of our side. In some kind of way I make 2 walls with 45x70 bolts but the wall is going to be 100mm thick. This construction is for nois reduction.
But if the visitors part of the house is not in use I want to keep that frost free but our part will be heated to 20°
To protect the heat transmission I prefer to insulate the inside walls.
It does have to be a heavy insulation but everything helps to protect the heat transmission to the other part of the house.
What is your advice : 45mm or 90mm with or without diffuse blocker ?
I know how to do that here in Holland, I build my house here in Holland but Sweden is totaly different in this and befor I made big mistakes I want to know how they do that in Sweden.
And I appreciate it very much that you all will advice me !!
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Hi again
I think 45mm is good not more, the timber has good heating abilities. You wont save much isolating it more, because the timber won't feel well about it. But it's a trade off risk/economy. I don't think u save much on isolating it more. A better way to do it is to check untight windows, doors, bad balanced ventilation, ceiling isolation and floor. Walls are better to insulate from the outside or have it in mind when you build the house (space) from the beggining.
/Regards Fabian-Bom
I don't think u need a diffusion blocker because it is a vacation house with no existing diffusion blocker but most important you use the house for 4-6weeks a year? so no heavy moisture pressure will appear. However if you are going to sell the house or make it permanent, then i suggest you to use a diffusionblocker, at least in the ceiling because the most of the heated air which carry water travels upwards. Or you can use organic materials such as "ekofiber". I can't say its wrong to use it but in your situation it's not wrong to not use it
It's 90% a wind blocker.Take out a 10*10cm of that black thing put it on top of a glass and pour some water in the middle. After some time the water will bleed thru or or at least make the board really wet, hence windblocker. If u have a diffusion blocker it wont bleed thru, at least not for a long long time. It's maybe not exactly true, a wood piece wont bleed thru or wet either but with those thin pieces u can be pretty sure.
I think 45mm is good not more, the timber has good heating abilities. You wont save much isolating it more, because the timber won't feel well about it. But it's a trade off risk/economy. I don't think u save much on isolating it more. A better way to do it is to check untight windows, doors, bad balanced ventilation, ceiling isolation and floor. Walls are better to insulate from the outside or have it in mind when you build the house (space) from the beggining.
No diffusion blocker, but build it tight. And it helps if u heat it up a bit more than just frostfree (5 dergrees) maybe 8-10 degrees (how big space is it?) You can use your construction with sick-sack bolts or how u say it in english. A better construction in my mind is to put double 13mm gips at each side and use double steelbolts wit 10mm airspace between. If u want to use 70/45 bolts put as much heavy insulation u can in it but remember that the double gips does a big difference to. Two 70mm steelbolts with 10mm airspace and double gips builds 202mm, thinner is no use to go with air space between.
/Regards Fabian-Bom
Fabian-Bom skrev:
This what I am going to do ! Thank you very much, I did not know this.
I will do thatFabian-Bom skrev:
8 x 9 meter and 3 meters highFabian-Bom skrev:
It is a zigzag construction. That is already made.Fabian-Bom skrev:
Fabian-Bom skrev:
Best Regards
Nol