Swedish Legal knowldege... any help?
Firstly... Sorry for writing in english: my Spoken Swedish is fairly good, but typing it? You'd all spend more time laughing than reading.
Background: I'm a Mechanical Engineer, 33 years old (I think) and half way though breathing life into our 1890 farmhouse in the south of Skåne. (I say halfway... but I'm being optimistic) So far we've replaced the whole roof using SF40 insulation, and built a tiny extension.
I've been reading this site for a few years now, and have only just had reason to sign up. :blushing:
The Problem:
My Sambo and I are in a bit of a fight with a guy we employed to do "K-ritningar" for our small extension.
We verbally agreed on "Drawings needed to complete the project" and a delivery time of 2 weeks and a cost of "Between 8000 and 9000 Kronor"
3 weeks later, a single A3 drawing arrived (the drawing itself would have managed to fit on a piece of A4)
There were multiple faults, but the two most important ones were the floor level being 400mm too high, he had used 360mm StenUll when we had specifically pointed out that we were using superfoil.
I produce engineering drawings daily.... the standard of this work made me laugh. I genuinely thought it was a joke.
We went to meet him... explained that "for 8-9000SEK we expect a full set of drawings and expect the materials to be the ones we specified" He acknowledged this and said the corrections would take 2 weeks. We re-affirmed that time was REALLY important, and asked if it could be sent by E-mail... he said yes.
2 weeks later we rang him to find out where the drawings were.... "Oh, I'm sorry, my drawing guy is still on holiday... 2 more weeks"
4 weeks later (after we'd encountered delays and I'd done the drawings myself) a package arrived. .. here we probably made a mistake, and returned it.
A bill for 13,950 arrived. :x
Note... a little more than 8-9000sek.
What's that great word again? ... Bestridelse.
Reminders, discussion, and more bestridelsor followed, and all the time we were offering to pay him 8500sek. If we could see the drawings first.
Lots of false claims were made "you said after our first meeting that you wanted to use space-foil" etc... and most of all he claimed that "it should have been obvious that we had asked for extra work"
We believe that he should have TOLD us it was going to be extra work. He did not do this.
We sought advice from Villaägarna (spelling?) and they told us to stand firm and give him nothing.
During which time he said he was entitled to ask for 10,350kr.
Our legal advice said that was not true... *because* he had not mentioned that he thought we were asking for extra work.
After several threats of inkasso, kronfogden, indrivning and Tingsrätt he is insisting we pay 9000sek (our final offer to him) into his account and THEN he will send the drawings.
Given his doubtful actions throughout the whole deal, I'm insisting upon a meeting where we can look at the drawings and check that they really exist before parting with any money.
****************
The terrible thing is, we don't even need the drawings. I did all the drawings that were needed myself, and when he crept onto our land and took photos in an attempt to disprove my claim that "building work was done when the drawings arrived" he only managed to confirm that we had cancelled one extension *because* he had cost us time. (He probably noticed that we'd used different materials too)
Current situation.
His line is "pay me 9000SEK TODAY and then I'll send you the drawings, OR I'll take you to court"
Oh yeah.. and if I want it in digital format, that'll be another 6000SEK!!
His bullying tactics have tested my patience so far, but I'd rather enjoy court I think.
What would you all do?
I hope that - even if no one can help - this has given you a laugh.
Cheers,
/Nick
Background: I'm a Mechanical Engineer, 33 years old (I think) and half way though breathing life into our 1890 farmhouse in the south of Skåne. (I say halfway... but I'm being optimistic) So far we've replaced the whole roof using SF40 insulation, and built a tiny extension.
I've been reading this site for a few years now, and have only just had reason to sign up. :blushing:
The Problem:
My Sambo and I are in a bit of a fight with a guy we employed to do "K-ritningar" for our small extension.
We verbally agreed on "Drawings needed to complete the project" and a delivery time of 2 weeks and a cost of "Between 8000 and 9000 Kronor"
3 weeks later, a single A3 drawing arrived (the drawing itself would have managed to fit on a piece of A4)
There were multiple faults, but the two most important ones were the floor level being 400mm too high, he had used 360mm StenUll when we had specifically pointed out that we were using superfoil.
I produce engineering drawings daily.... the standard of this work made me laugh. I genuinely thought it was a joke.
We went to meet him... explained that "for 8-9000SEK we expect a full set of drawings and expect the materials to be the ones we specified" He acknowledged this and said the corrections would take 2 weeks. We re-affirmed that time was REALLY important, and asked if it could be sent by E-mail... he said yes.
2 weeks later we rang him to find out where the drawings were.... "Oh, I'm sorry, my drawing guy is still on holiday... 2 more weeks"
4 weeks later (after we'd encountered delays and I'd done the drawings myself) a package arrived. .. here we probably made a mistake, and returned it.
A bill for 13,950 arrived. :x
Note... a little more than 8-9000sek.
What's that great word again? ... Bestridelse.
Reminders, discussion, and more bestridelsor followed, and all the time we were offering to pay him 8500sek. If we could see the drawings first.
Lots of false claims were made "you said after our first meeting that you wanted to use space-foil" etc... and most of all he claimed that "it should have been obvious that we had asked for extra work"
We believe that he should have TOLD us it was going to be extra work. He did not do this.
We sought advice from Villaägarna (spelling?) and they told us to stand firm and give him nothing.
During which time he said he was entitled to ask for 10,350kr.
Our legal advice said that was not true... *because* he had not mentioned that he thought we were asking for extra work.
After several threats of inkasso, kronfogden, indrivning and Tingsrätt he is insisting we pay 9000sek (our final offer to him) into his account and THEN he will send the drawings.
Given his doubtful actions throughout the whole deal, I'm insisting upon a meeting where we can look at the drawings and check that they really exist before parting with any money.
****************
The terrible thing is, we don't even need the drawings. I did all the drawings that were needed myself, and when he crept onto our land and took photos in an attempt to disprove my claim that "building work was done when the drawings arrived" he only managed to confirm that we had cancelled one extension *because* he had cost us time. (He probably noticed that we'd used different materials too)
Current situation.
His line is "pay me 9000SEK TODAY and then I'll send you the drawings, OR I'll take you to court"
Oh yeah.. and if I want it in digital format, that'll be another 6000SEK!!
His bullying tactics have tested my patience so far, but I'd rather enjoy court I think.
What would you all do?
I hope that - even if no one can help - this has given you a laugh.
Cheers,
/Nick
OK, låter som du läser Svenska, så jag provar att svara på Svenska. Låt honom gå till domstol.
Du har som jag ser det beställt på löpande räkning med ett ungefärligt pris på 8 - 90000, då har han rätt att överstiga det ungefärliga priset med 15%. Detta under förutsättning att han levererar.
I princip så borde du egenligen inte erbjuda dig att betala ens 8 - 9000, pga. hans försening så har du ju inte någon nytta av ritningarna längre.
Du har gjort en beställning, du har tydligt berättat att tiden var viktig. Leverantören har kraftigt överstigit den avtalade tiden. Antingen kan du annulera beställningen med hänvisning till den sena leveransen, eller så kan du betala enl. det avtalde priset med avdrag för de kostnader som uppstått pga. förseningen. Där bör du kunna räkna in även din egen arbetstid för att göra egna ritningar.
Det som ev. kan vara värt för honom att tvista om är hur bra/dåligt hans första försenade arbete var i förhållande till vad du beställt. Du är van vid mekanik ritningar som typiskt är avesvärt mer detaljerade och välarbetade än byggritningar. Dvs. du bör kunna peka på faktiska fel och avvikelser på rtiningarna som gjorde dem oanvändbara att bygga efter.
Om vi antar att du trots allt vill betala honom för det onödiga arbetet, så skall du givetvis inte betala något i förväg om ni inte avtalat om förskottsbetalning. Här kan ev. återigen bevisningen rörande kvaliteten på det redan levererade materialet vara ett problem. Han kanske ev. kan hävda att han har levererat.
Jag bör kanske tillägga att jag är inte jurist, så du bör aboslut kolla med en riktig jurist innan du låter det går till domstol.
Du har som jag ser det beställt på löpande räkning med ett ungefärligt pris på 8 - 90000, då har han rätt att överstiga det ungefärliga priset med 15%. Detta under förutsättning att han levererar.
I princip så borde du egenligen inte erbjuda dig att betala ens 8 - 9000, pga. hans försening så har du ju inte någon nytta av ritningarna längre.
Du har gjort en beställning, du har tydligt berättat att tiden var viktig. Leverantören har kraftigt överstigit den avtalade tiden. Antingen kan du annulera beställningen med hänvisning till den sena leveransen, eller så kan du betala enl. det avtalde priset med avdrag för de kostnader som uppstått pga. förseningen. Där bör du kunna räkna in även din egen arbetstid för att göra egna ritningar.
Det som ev. kan vara värt för honom att tvista om är hur bra/dåligt hans första försenade arbete var i förhållande till vad du beställt. Du är van vid mekanik ritningar som typiskt är avesvärt mer detaljerade och välarbetade än byggritningar. Dvs. du bör kunna peka på faktiska fel och avvikelser på rtiningarna som gjorde dem oanvändbara att bygga efter.
Om vi antar att du trots allt vill betala honom för det onödiga arbetet, så skall du givetvis inte betala något i förväg om ni inte avtalat om förskottsbetalning. Här kan ev. återigen bevisningen rörande kvaliteten på det redan levererade materialet vara ett problem. Han kanske ev. kan hävda att han har levererat.
Jag bör kanske tillägga att jag är inte jurist, så du bör aboslut kolla med en riktig jurist innan du låter det går till domstol.
What I would do:
It's not a big sum, so it may be worth it to pay just to make the problem go away. What I would do would be to offer to pay the original sum, provided it was to be done at a meeting where I would also get the drawings.
Then, I'd show up at the meeting, hand him the money, get the drawings, then, without even looking at them, tear them up.
That'd make the point.
It's not a big sum, so it may be worth it to pay just to make the problem go away. What I would do would be to offer to pay the original sum, provided it was to be done at a meeting where I would also get the drawings.
Then, I'd show up at the meeting, hand him the money, get the drawings, then, without even looking at them, tear them up.
That'd make the point.
Thanks for the responses! All understood.
Small detail, not sure if they make a difference., but it seems that his right to claim 15% extra is an open question still.
When I spoke to the free legal adviser from VillaÄgaren I pointed out that the contract was clearly stated as "in between 8 to 9 thousand", and not "around 8 to 9 Thousand" the adviser pointed out that this meant he had to inform us if he was going to charge us an extra 15%.
As time goes by and I talk to more people, I get less worried and more angry with this guy.
I'm going to attempt to copy-paste a large chunk of the latest communication in here .... mostly for your amusement. :S (so I hope it's not too boring)
I should point out that I have been this calm and controlled throughout, and that at our first ever meeting he said it was OK to mix english/Swedish communication - and hasn't complained since. (so we have the "I didn't understand" option covered)
Names removed to protect the "Gentleman" in question.
English: me
Swedish.... him.
********************
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir.
It is clear that we disagree on conduct and the finer points of this disagreement. However these things - I'm sure we can both agree - are completely irrelevant: the only thing that really counts is the law.
To recap: you have sent us a bill for 13.950SEK which we contested for multiple reasons previously stated.
Subsequent reminders for the original amount +200kr were also contested for the same reasons.
In an attempt to honour the contract, we have repeatedly offered 8500kr (Striking the middle line between the 8000 - 9000kr of the contract), and you have responded with 10,350kr - claiming that you are legally able to ask for that amount.
*****
We have recently been advised that you are not entitled to claim +15%, as we were never informed that you saw the corrections as "extra work", and especially as when we stated "face to face" that we expected these corrections to be encompassed by the quoted 8-9000kr, you acknowledged that statement, but made no further comment.
It has also been confirmed for us that your assertation on the 20th September that "Självklart kostar det mer om man vill ha mer redovisat på ritningar"has no weight to it. It is not "Obvious" in the slightest, which is precisely why you are required by law to point out to a customer that - in your opinion - they are requesting "extra" work. You did not do so, even when prompted. Had you done so, we would have discussed it there and then.
So, We hereby amend our offer to 9000kr. This will honour the maximum of the quote you gave us, and - according to legal advisers - is the maximum amount a small claims court couldaward you.
However, this leaves us at an impasse: Obviously we don't want to pay for drawings that we have not seen, and you clearly don't want to part with drawings until you have a payment - this is understandable.
We suggest that we meet at your office in order for us to fulfil both of our needs simultaniously: you provide drawings - in both digital format and on A3 paper so that we can check them, and we provide a payment. Obviously, receipts will be required - but this is a minor detail.
As a lawyer said this morning - "you have the ball Sir".
Yours Sincerely,
Nick
*********************************************
To: Nick
Subject: Re: Continued discussion.
I lagen 36 § får uppgivet pris överskridas med högst 15 %. Någon anna lag gäller inte i Sverige.
Betala omgående beloppet på 9000:- så sänder vi ritningen i pappersformat till er.
XXXXXXXXX
*************************************
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir,
I'm very pleased that we have come to an agreement on price.
I shall have to insist upon seeing the drawings before paying for them however, and we also require them in digital format. (As discussed on our first meeting: 23rd June). Neither you nor I would pay for a car without seeing it first - So I am sure you understand the request.
In order to achieve this, a meeting to satisfy both our requirements would really be the best solution.
*Please note that I will not be contractable from the evening of Tuesday 26th through to Monday 1st (due to work commitments).
I will respond to any mail received during that time on Monday the 1st.
Yours Sincerely,
Nick
**************************************************
Sent: den 25 oktober 2010 10:10
To: Nick
Subject: Re: Continued discussion.
Hej
Vi har ingen överenskommelse om du tror det. Vi skall ha betalt idag annars så lämnar vi ärendet vidare. Ni har haft chnasen att se ritningarna men sände då tillbaka dom. Vi har aldrig lovat er ritningarna digitalt men det kan ni få mot en merkostnad på sextusen kronor.
Att vi erbjöd er en uppgörelse var enbart för att vi skall in på operation imorgon och kommer att vara sjuksriven en längre tid. Men ni håller bara på att konstra och lägger till nya saker hela tiden. Följande gäller:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
****************************
CONTINUED BELOW
Small detail, not sure if they make a difference., but it seems that his right to claim 15% extra is an open question still.
When I spoke to the free legal adviser from VillaÄgaren I pointed out that the contract was clearly stated as "in between 8 to 9 thousand", and not "around 8 to 9 Thousand" the adviser pointed out that this meant he had to inform us if he was going to charge us an extra 15%.
As time goes by and I talk to more people, I get less worried and more angry with this guy.
I'm going to attempt to copy-paste a large chunk of the latest communication in here .... mostly for your amusement. :S (so I hope it's not too boring)
I should point out that I have been this calm and controlled throughout, and that at our first ever meeting he said it was OK to mix english/Swedish communication - and hasn't complained since. (so we have the "I didn't understand" option covered)
Names removed to protect the "Gentleman" in question.
English: me
Swedish.... him.
********************
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir.
It is clear that we disagree on conduct and the finer points of this disagreement. However these things - I'm sure we can both agree - are completely irrelevant: the only thing that really counts is the law.
To recap: you have sent us a bill for 13.950SEK which we contested for multiple reasons previously stated.
Subsequent reminders for the original amount +200kr were also contested for the same reasons.
In an attempt to honour the contract, we have repeatedly offered 8500kr (Striking the middle line between the 8000 - 9000kr of the contract), and you have responded with 10,350kr - claiming that you are legally able to ask for that amount.
*****
We have recently been advised that you are not entitled to claim +15%, as we were never informed that you saw the corrections as "extra work", and especially as when we stated "face to face" that we expected these corrections to be encompassed by the quoted 8-9000kr, you acknowledged that statement, but made no further comment.
It has also been confirmed for us that your assertation on the 20th September that "Självklart kostar det mer om man vill ha mer redovisat på ritningar"has no weight to it. It is not "Obvious" in the slightest, which is precisely why you are required by law to point out to a customer that - in your opinion - they are requesting "extra" work. You did not do so, even when prompted. Had you done so, we would have discussed it there and then.
So, We hereby amend our offer to 9000kr. This will honour the maximum of the quote you gave us, and - according to legal advisers - is the maximum amount a small claims court couldaward you.
However, this leaves us at an impasse: Obviously we don't want to pay for drawings that we have not seen, and you clearly don't want to part with drawings until you have a payment - this is understandable.
We suggest that we meet at your office in order for us to fulfil both of our needs simultaniously: you provide drawings - in both digital format and on A3 paper so that we can check them, and we provide a payment. Obviously, receipts will be required - but this is a minor detail.
As a lawyer said this morning - "you have the ball Sir".
Yours Sincerely,
Nick
*********************************************
To: Nick
Subject: Re: Continued discussion.
I lagen 36 § får uppgivet pris överskridas med högst 15 %. Någon anna lag gäller inte i Sverige.
Betala omgående beloppet på 9000:- så sänder vi ritningen i pappersformat till er.
XXXXXXXXX
*************************************
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir,
I'm very pleased that we have come to an agreement on price.
I shall have to insist upon seeing the drawings before paying for them however, and we also require them in digital format. (As discussed on our first meeting: 23rd June). Neither you nor I would pay for a car without seeing it first - So I am sure you understand the request.
In order to achieve this, a meeting to satisfy both our requirements would really be the best solution.
*Please note that I will not be contractable from the evening of Tuesday 26th through to Monday 1st (due to work commitments).
I will respond to any mail received during that time on Monday the 1st.
Yours Sincerely,
Nick
**************************************************
Sent: den 25 oktober 2010 10:10
To: Nick
Subject: Re: Continued discussion.
Hej
Vi har ingen överenskommelse om du tror det. Vi skall ha betalt idag annars så lämnar vi ärendet vidare. Ni har haft chnasen att se ritningarna men sände då tillbaka dom. Vi har aldrig lovat er ritningarna digitalt men det kan ni få mot en merkostnad på sextusen kronor.
Att vi erbjöd er en uppgörelse var enbart för att vi skall in på operation imorgon och kommer att vara sjuksriven en längre tid. Men ni håller bara på att konstra och lägger till nya saker hela tiden. Följande gäller:
- Betala in 9000:- idag.
- Vi sänder er pappersritningar när pengaran finns på vårt konto.
- Därmed är alla våra affärsförbindelser avslutade.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
****************************
CONTINUED BELOW
Redigerat:
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir.
I can come and visit you any time today "cash in hand" and will accept "paper only" drawings of a reasonable size - this will mean you can avoid the stress of checking accounts and dealing with recorded delivery postage.
This will fulfill all parts 1, 2 & 3 of your request instantly.
I wish you all the luck with your forthcoming operation and a speedy recovery.
Best regards,
Nick
*********************************
Hello
Tyvärr är varje minut obokad idag.
MVH
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
***************************************************
Hi there...
I'm assuming you mean "upbokad"?
It is a shame, as a meeting today really is the only way to conclude the business before you go in for your operation - though I can understand if you're about to be off work for a while things are likely to be incredibly busy.
Is it possible that your associate can conduct business in your absence?
I'll be happy to resume this conversation when you have time - and I want to re-assure you that the money will be waiting for you when you wish to meet and make an exchange of drawings/payment.
We wish you a good recovery!
Best Regards,
Nick
*****************************
Hej
Uppbokad var det. Tyvärr kan bara jag ta det. Så betala in idag och när pengarna finns på vårt konto sänder vi ritningen.
Annars överlämnar vi ärendet till tingsrätten att avgöra.
MVH
*****************************************
Dear Sir.
Regarding 'business with you only, and not associates': that's fine.. I just thought it would be worth making sure it wasn't an option.
Following the history of the drawings and our interactions so far, we will not part with any money until I have had an opportunity to check the drawings. It is an absolutely reasonable request, and I find it quite surprising that you continue to deny us this opportunity.
The fact that we neglected to take a previous opportunity is unfortunate, but is not grounds to attempt to force us to pay for something that we have not yet seen.
I am also sorry that you believe that the "digital format" is a new request. You in fact informed [Sic: my Sambo] twice that you had attempted to E-mail the drawings to her in early July: I had therefore assumed that this was a normal activity for you and understood it to be part of the deal, and not one that carries a 6000 Kronor Price tag.
Incidentally, you may remember that you blamed the failed E-mail attempts on a router being fried by a thunderstorm.
I ask you to understand that I will only hand money over in response to a bill for the correct amount, or if I am able to obtain a signed receipt: Again, this is common practice for any transaction, and an entirely reasonable request.
I'm not sure that handing the matter over to a court is a more simple solution than simply allowing a meeting. I for one prefer the meeting/cash/receipt idea. The meeting need only be 60 seconds!
As said: It seems like your time schedule won't allow for a meeting in the near future - but I'll be willing to take part in a brief meeting whenever you have time.
We both wish you good luck for tomorrow!
Yours Sincerely,
/Nick
**************************
So... There we are. Being threatened with court because - essentially - he won't agree to let us check the drawings or have a proper financial transaction.
Both bits of advice given here (thanks again) are in line with my thoughts at the moment... let him take it to court. The legal advice we have had has - on 3 occasions with 3 different people - led to us being told that it's a "no-brainer" and that we'd win.
Troberg: While tempting to tear them up without looking at them, I won't be paying for drawings if they are incorrect - whether I need them or not. I need to chek'em first.
Also... we've tried to meet and hand stuff over (I think I've suggested it 5 times in total)... but he doesn't want to. Very odd.
Hempularen: The list of faults on the first set of drawings that were a week late (blamed on thunderstorms for E-mail and "stupid summer workers in the postal service" for the actual drawing) is huge.
Floor level 400mm too high
-360mm rockwool and takstolar instead of 60mm Superfoil SF40 insulation
-Failed to take into account our clay layer when drawing post footings (beam solution was -used in the end instead of single posts)
-350mm lekablock specced, when only 300 would fit in....
etc.
We have a free hour with Lawyer apparently... if it comes to that we'll be shooting for "no drawings, no money" and will try to claim for our time.
Anyway... I'm off to Dusseldorf.... Thanks for the advice, and yes, I understand that it's not professional advice etc.... no disclaimers needed with me
Seeya on Monday!
Subject: RE: Continued discussion.
Dear Sir.
I can come and visit you any time today "cash in hand" and will accept "paper only" drawings of a reasonable size - this will mean you can avoid the stress of checking accounts and dealing with recorded delivery postage.
This will fulfill all parts 1, 2 & 3 of your request instantly.
I wish you all the luck with your forthcoming operation and a speedy recovery.
Best regards,
Nick
*********************************
Hello
Tyvärr är varje minut obokad idag.
MVH
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
***************************************************
Hi there...
I'm assuming you mean "upbokad"?
It is a shame, as a meeting today really is the only way to conclude the business before you go in for your operation - though I can understand if you're about to be off work for a while things are likely to be incredibly busy.
Is it possible that your associate can conduct business in your absence?
I'll be happy to resume this conversation when you have time - and I want to re-assure you that the money will be waiting for you when you wish to meet and make an exchange of drawings/payment.
We wish you a good recovery!
Best Regards,
Nick
*****************************
Hej
Uppbokad var det. Tyvärr kan bara jag ta det. Så betala in idag och när pengarna finns på vårt konto sänder vi ritningen.
Annars överlämnar vi ärendet till tingsrätten att avgöra.
MVH
*****************************************
Dear Sir.
Regarding 'business with you only, and not associates': that's fine.. I just thought it would be worth making sure it wasn't an option.
Following the history of the drawings and our interactions so far, we will not part with any money until I have had an opportunity to check the drawings. It is an absolutely reasonable request, and I find it quite surprising that you continue to deny us this opportunity.
The fact that we neglected to take a previous opportunity is unfortunate, but is not grounds to attempt to force us to pay for something that we have not yet seen.
I am also sorry that you believe that the "digital format" is a new request. You in fact informed [Sic: my Sambo] twice that you had attempted to E-mail the drawings to her in early July: I had therefore assumed that this was a normal activity for you and understood it to be part of the deal, and not one that carries a 6000 Kronor Price tag.
Incidentally, you may remember that you blamed the failed E-mail attempts on a router being fried by a thunderstorm.
I ask you to understand that I will only hand money over in response to a bill for the correct amount, or if I am able to obtain a signed receipt: Again, this is common practice for any transaction, and an entirely reasonable request.
I'm not sure that handing the matter over to a court is a more simple solution than simply allowing a meeting. I for one prefer the meeting/cash/receipt idea. The meeting need only be 60 seconds!
As said: It seems like your time schedule won't allow for a meeting in the near future - but I'll be willing to take part in a brief meeting whenever you have time.
We both wish you good luck for tomorrow!
Yours Sincerely,
/Nick
**************************
So... There we are. Being threatened with court because - essentially - he won't agree to let us check the drawings or have a proper financial transaction.
Both bits of advice given here (thanks again) are in line with my thoughts at the moment... let him take it to court. The legal advice we have had has - on 3 occasions with 3 different people - led to us being told that it's a "no-brainer" and that we'd win.
Troberg: While tempting to tear them up without looking at them, I won't be paying for drawings if they are incorrect - whether I need them or not. I need to chek'em first.
Also... we've tried to meet and hand stuff over (I think I've suggested it 5 times in total)... but he doesn't want to. Very odd.
Hempularen: The list of faults on the first set of drawings that were a week late (blamed on thunderstorms for E-mail and "stupid summer workers in the postal service" for the actual drawing) is huge.
Floor level 400mm too high
-360mm rockwool and takstolar instead of 60mm Superfoil SF40 insulation
-Failed to take into account our clay layer when drawing post footings (beam solution was -used in the end instead of single posts)
-350mm lekablock specced, when only 300 would fit in....
etc.
We have a free hour with Lawyer apparently... if it comes to that we'll be shooting for "no drawings, no money" and will try to claim for our time.
Anyway... I'm off to Dusseldorf.... Thanks for the advice, and yes, I understand that it's not professional advice etc.... no disclaimers needed with me
Seeya on Monday!
The "lateness" of the drawings was not a result of the conflict - however, the guy in question claims that because we didn't "cancel" the contract, we showed that we were happy when he said it was more delayed.
However... whatever he sent (we didn't open it I'm sorry to say) was VERY late compared to the original "two weeks" he quoted.
I've had nothing from him in the last few days: it would appear that he's been telling the truth for once, and has gone to hospital... not sure why he bothered: you can't reverse a Lobotomy.
Mvh,
/Nick
However... whatever he sent (we didn't open it I'm sorry to say) was VERY late compared to the original "two weeks" he quoted.
I've had nothing from him in the last few days: it would appear that he's been telling the truth for once, and has gone to hospital... not sure why he bothered: you can't reverse a Lobotomy.
Mvh,
/Nick
Simple message from him today.
"You're welcome between 09:00 and 13:30 tomorrow. Bring the Bills"
I guess he's seen sense
Bills photocopied.. .and I'm ready to play.
Will be requiring receipt, and drawings of a good size.
"You're welcome between 09:00 and 13:30 tomorrow. Bring the Bills"
I guess he's seen sense
Bills photocopied.. .and I'm ready to play.
Will be requiring receipt, and drawings of a good size.
Lots of words coming from him.
First of all, I am not a lawyer, just a normal Swedish citizen
Actually what will happen if you dispute the bill is that he can send it to "Kronofogden" of course after that it could be a matter for the court - and in that case all your conversations, especially written ones, will be included in the case.
Do you have a copy of the first set of drawings ? It could be good if a court is to decide if they were of a good quality
Anyway: You really do not do yourself any favors by negotiating the price or even agreeing to pay up in the first place. It is a bit late now, but you should probably not have accepted the second delay at all...just pointed out that in that case the order is cancelled since you previously had stressed that time was of the essence, and that any drawings produced form then on was useless (i.e. he didnt fulfill the contract)
But in your current situation - if you get the drawings for 9000 and are prepared to pay that to make this go away - so be it...
Otherwise you should not negotiate the price any more att all:
In the end- he did not deliver as promised, he has just made a lot of attempts to make excuses.
If a delay is very essential "av väsentlig betydelse" you are allowed to cancel your contract according to swedish law - but you must do just that - cancel the contract.
(For instance see: http://www.byggahus.se/artiklar/fragor-och-svar-om-kontrakt FRÅGA (2007-05-09))
/K
First of all, I am not a lawyer, just a normal Swedish citizen
Actually what will happen if you dispute the bill is that he can send it to "Kronofogden" of course after that it could be a matter for the court - and in that case all your conversations, especially written ones, will be included in the case.
Do you have a copy of the first set of drawings ? It could be good if a court is to decide if they were of a good quality
Anyway: You really do not do yourself any favors by negotiating the price or even agreeing to pay up in the first place. It is a bit late now, but you should probably not have accepted the second delay at all...just pointed out that in that case the order is cancelled since you previously had stressed that time was of the essence, and that any drawings produced form then on was useless (i.e. he didnt fulfill the contract)
But in your current situation - if you get the drawings for 9000 and are prepared to pay that to make this go away - so be it...
Otherwise you should not negotiate the price any more att all:
In the end- he did not deliver as promised, he has just made a lot of attempts to make excuses.
If a delay is very essential "av väsentlig betydelse" you are allowed to cancel your contract according to swedish law - but you must do just that - cancel the contract.
(For instance see: http://www.byggahus.se/artiklar/fragor-och-svar-om-kontrakt FRÅGA (2007-05-09))
/K
Redigerat:
Well, after a total of 4 threats of court, 5 for Inkasso, 1 for Indrivning and 2 for kronfogden, he proved that he wasn't a man of his word by taking 9K in cash, and giving us a written and signed receipt on the old bill for 14K.
Throughout the entire affair, he has been late, incompetent and unapologetic. He has lied about things that were agreed, made claims that were false, and attempted to get money from us in ways that were highly odd. He has also treated my missus as an easy target by sending threatening E-mails to her, and her only.
Had I been single, I'd have carried on fighting, but sometimes keeping your other half happy and un-stressed is worth biting the bullet for.:S
I'm not sure if there's a "blacklist" here for firms that have caused trouble, or ones that should be avoided.... but I'd label this guy as a cheat and a liar, and recommend people to stay well away from him.:@..... Either that, or they chisel their demands in stone before letting him start anything.
Tiny drawings on A3 paper... and STILL wrong... Nevermind. I guess we'll chalk it up to experience
Thanks for all the help and comments!
/Nick
Throughout the entire affair, he has been late, incompetent and unapologetic. He has lied about things that were agreed, made claims that were false, and attempted to get money from us in ways that were highly odd. He has also treated my missus as an easy target by sending threatening E-mails to her, and her only.
Had I been single, I'd have carried on fighting, but sometimes keeping your other half happy and un-stressed is worth biting the bullet for.:S
I'm not sure if there's a "blacklist" here for firms that have caused trouble, or ones that should be avoided.... but I'd label this guy as a cheat and a liar, and recommend people to stay well away from him.:@..... Either that, or they chisel their demands in stone before letting him start anything.
Tiny drawings on A3 paper... and STILL wrong... Nevermind. I guess we'll chalk it up to experience
Thanks for all the help and comments!
/Nick
You are welcome to publish the name of his company here on byggahus. Person names can be a little tricky for legal reasons.
Thanks for the answer that I was hoping for Hempularen.
Unfortunately he has chosen to name his company after himself... Narcissism comes with a price.
If you treat customers as walking money-sacks and assume them to be idiots, they probably feel the need to make posts like this:
Ladies and Gentlemen....
The company - with whom I have had the displeasure of dealing with - is Bramnert Byggadministration AB
http://www.bramnert.se/
I'm sure Others have dealt with them with no problems at all - I however, have have not.
The events detailed above are absolutely accurate, and not distorted in any way.
All the best,
/Nick
Unfortunately he has chosen to name his company after himself... Narcissism comes with a price.
If you treat customers as walking money-sacks and assume them to be idiots, they probably feel the need to make posts like this:
Ladies and Gentlemen....
The company - with whom I have had the displeasure of dealing with - is Bramnert Byggadministration AB
http://www.bramnert.se/
I'm sure Others have dealt with them with no problems at all - I however, have have not.
The events detailed above are absolutely accurate, and not distorted in any way.
All the best,
/Nick
Redigerat: